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| VFR Flight: Information Links - ATC Position Jurisdiction | |
Christian Smith   29th Sep 2010 20:04:17 |
So this is in no way authorised by the managers or anything set in stone... Just a few tips from me to you to increase everybodys realistic simulation experience. I thik we need to be open and honest about skill levels, and especially our ATCs need practise and further reading on VFR Flight, its discpline- the rules, and the phraseology. Just typing VFR Simulation, into google gave me reams of info on VFR flight within a simulated environment, much like what we offer on fsopen, heres a couple of links I found useful. http://www.vatsim.net/prc/prc-vfrspec/vfr-flight-planning/ And for a full insight, which explains VFR Flight really well (Although slghtly americanised): http://www.seaartcc.net/general/events/pugetpassion/Flying%20VFR%20on%20VATSIM.pdf Virtual Pilots are usually very unfamiliar with VFR flight, so if you're filing VFR make sure you understand the differences and the phraseology. ATC should be familiar with VFR flight, if NOT - I recommend that you ask the aircraft to divert - then no unsafe or incorrect instructions can be given and no simulation experience is lost. Pilots should seek assistance from a Pilot Mentor or Senior (Rank 5) Pilot. ATC should seek help from any Senior ATC or ATC Mentor (Rank 4 or 5) One more tip for current VFR pilots... VFR should not make regular position reports to approach or departure positions unless it is requested. These are more encouraged by Enroute controller though. Also, this is a big annoyance at the minute for me... the basic and usually generically adopted way of segementing atc positions within a virtual environment is as follows: Ground: Provides clearance and all ground movements, excluding that which must enter a runway. Tower: Aircraft on a runway. Provides clearances to VFR pilots. Provides clearance for takeoff and landing, is responsible for the safe seperation of aircraft. Is responsible for the safe implimentation of go around and MAPs. Is responsible for aircraft upto and NOT EXCEEDING 2, 500ft, based upon the QFE of the field. Radar: Responsible for traffic from 2,500 ft (qfe) - FL060 (reg QNH), provides approach and departure instructions, maintains the safe seperation of aircraft. - on fsopen, although no formal information dictates this, usually handles aircraft up to around FL120, with the absense of Centres and TMAs, and usually accepts aircraft contacting up to 45nm from the airfield. TMA: Provides departure, approach and enroute services for aircraft for more than 1 airfield, MAY cover radar for these airfields. TMAs within the UK include London, Manchester and Scotish. Info on what airfields are under this controllers airspace can be found on the side in teamspeak. They handle traffic FL060 (usually in virtual environment to) FL110 - 120 Control: Conrols traffic where no TMA exists, FL060 +, where TMA exists FL110-120+ In the UK there are 3 Controls used for virtual purposes these are London Scottish Shannon London: From Manchester to the Channel Scottish: From Manchester, including manchester, North to the tip of Scotland Shannon: Eire, including Irish Sea mid point. If you were to depart from Manchester on a full ATC day you would expect the following handoffs: -Ground: On the, or approaching the holding point. -Tower: Following departure, no higher than 2, 500 -Radar (Departure): Passing FL060 -Manchester TMA: Passing FL110 -Scotting Control: Leaving the airspace handoff to Shannon, London, or UNICOM. So according to what I know thats about it- unfortuntately I'm not blessed with a vast knowledge. ...So take this as you like, not trying to rub anyone upt he wrong way, not trying to force my views on anyone, I know some people do genuinely want to advance in knowledge, so theres a little help if you want it. Otherwise feel free to ignore me. As a pilot I'm getting pretty selective on which ATC I fly with... and I dont think this is a good thing. I think realistic ATC is achiveable without involving Politics or making things to hard for newbies. Christian |
Kristen Dodds  29th Sep 2010 20:16:08 | I can see your point Christian. I did this today becuase I had to cover for Robert Ramsell as his flight simulator was playing up.I really have no clue about Radar position, and having to all postions tonight was alot for me to handle. I do normally stick to my restrictions on which position I am controlling, but tonight it was a one off for radar. Sorry about the mess up's.
Kristen :) |
| Christian Smith 29th Sep 2010 20:22:24 | This wasn't directed or prompted by anyone or anything in particular, have just noticed in the last couple of weeks.
I think ATC do need to be firm with thier positions and not give pilots the ATC service that we cannot provide.... of course jumping in for 5 minutes is no big issue! Your actually doing everyone a big favor! As I said this hasnt been propted by anyone in particular, and think you do a very good job of sticking to the towers job. Christian |
Lance Monk  29th Sep 2010 21:14:25 | ATC is often great when It's available, but taking it to the extreme is not always desirable due to the various amount of experience new and old simmers may have.Personally I have often avoided airports purely due to not wanting to have to deal with ATC when I'm not in the mood for it. I understand some people's desire to have their gaming experience as realistic as possible but being anal and pedantic about phraseology does nobody any favors. Specially for youngsters who are new to the simming world If it's to hard they might lose interest in FSOpen. Understandably people wishing to do ATC would benefit from doing a little homework before jumping in a tower position but many players just want to have FUN instead of having all the rules and regulations forced down their throats. |
| Paul Edmond 30th Sep 2010 00:17:14 | I can understand some peoples views on this subject and it is always going to be a talking point. As far as im concerned this piece is gold. I want my experience to be realistic and detailed threads like this help me to take it to the next level (provided you read it!) However if this isint your bag of tea dont read it, As Christian as said take it as you like. If you just want to have a fun time then this doesnt apply to you. See it as constructive criticism for those who do want a realistic experience. For those who want it realistic this is fun for them so everyone gets their kicks in different ways. Thanks anyway Chiristian for setting this out, Some areas were a bit grey beforehand. |
Steff Missot 2nd Oct 2010 08:54:15 | Very helpful thanks christian ;) |
| Christian Smith 6th Oct 2010 14:49:33 | The thing to remember is ATC itself is in fact just rules, regulations and picky bits.
Although some of my posts do sound technical, when applied in an actual situation they couldnt be more simple- and of course ATC procedure does SIMPLIFY flying for pilots, and makes things more realistic for the controller. its the ATCs job to be 'anal and pedantic' - ie. make sure theyre sticking to what they should, and not the pilots. I appreciate not all pilots want there gaming to be realistic, but on FSopen we have very advanced pilots too. The balance is hard to achieve and the easiest thing to do is literally have procedures for the big boys and procedures for the newbies. I pride myself on the fact I can adjust to various levels of pilot skill, and never set out to make work for pilots- though perhaps do set out to make work for controllers. At the end of the day VFR aircraft are left to there own devices, so providing they are able to maintain or keep below an assigned altitude (which surely isnt much to ask) then there is no requirement to fly to proper ATC rules. However, 5 rank pilots may wish to fly via VRPs, exit and entry routes, and expect a professional ATC service. I know I do. You see the difficulty in pitching any info on here? I am concious of making lots of posts and 'ramming' info down peoples throats, but as I say, take it or leave it. Regards, Christian |
| Mick McG 7th Oct 2010 00:04:27 | "....its the ATCs job to be 'anal and pedantic'"
"The thing to remember is ATC itself is in fact just rules, regulations and picky bits" Controllers have feelings you know! No need to tell everyone about my anal picky bits!! (LMAO) |
| Christian Smith 7th Oct 2010 15:55:38 | ;)
Wouldnt have been my choice of words on the matter. lol. |
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