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Spammers
David Bartlam
United Kingdom

26th Mar 2014
16:35:56
Apologies for posting this in here. I wasn't going to until I went into Aero Sky's Teamspeak to ask them to stop spamming my TS server, but as soon as I joined and said hello, I was messaged numerous times with their server IP address and then subjected to what can only be described as a woman in pain, which actually turned out to be a kid in a fit of hysterical laughter, telling me to join them as "This is the place to be".

Had them in my Teamspeak, advertising today. Thought I'd make you guys aware. We have plenty more photos of them continually hassling our members, I think just a few will paint the picture though.

http://i.imgur.com/bA9fEuP.png
http://i.imgur.com/pcSp85A.png
http://i.imgur.com/oUndoGA.png

As I said, I don't usually post this sort of thing here. I prefer to have a word with the guys that own the servers, that usually sorts this issue out, but on this occasion, these guys just seem to think it's a joke.
David Bartlam
United Kingdom

26th Mar 2014
20:37:33
We've now been subject to advertising from Lufthansa Virtual also, despite them being asked to stop last night, I've been made aware that a certain member has been in our Teamspeak again tonight, promoting that session.

Guys, understand that a lot of the community's on the FSOpen sessions list have been going for a long time. In most cases, a lot of time, effort and even money has gone in to get them where they are today. A good member base and popularity. Your sessions are extremely new and pretty unheard of. By running into other people's Teamspeak's, you are just going to get a bad name for yourselves. All you are attempting to do to these community's is "steal" there members which they have worked hard to attract and keep on their server. Thankfully, mine are loyal enough to tell me when we get random promoters in the server. I've had a case previously where two of my members were going Into other Teamspeak's promoting FSXWorldwide without my knowledge. They are no longer members of FSXW because of this. It's not fair going into other sessions trying to get members to join your own. Do what everyone else does, try and make your server stand out from the rest for all the right reasons. That's what attracts people!!
Kenneth Brander
Norway

27th Mar 2014
14:06:53
Hey guys,

We have had these young teenagers on our TeamSpeak as well and on our fsx-server promoting their project as they have done with their former projects. They are recruiting people from many places so we are probably not alone about experiencing this David. They seem quite desperate to gain position on this network and has little scruples on how they do it. Something which is bad for the networks reputation in general but not a big problem for us as communities.

The server is created by a rather young crew who all are blacklisted from our community for being trouble-makers or have been of nuisance to our community in general. Some of them was blacklisted already almost two years ago. So called time-drainers in my book and I wouldn't pay them to much attention.

These guys are as dedicated as an satanist in a grill-suit, and will surely turn with the wind. They have been involved in large variety of projects who all has gone to their ruin because of their immaturity and low level of dedication to stick with their cause and values. They all want to be in control and lead the way.

If they want to gather up people who has as little and poor values as themselves then let them at it and rather keep on working as usual then getting hung up on battling these guys as they are digging their own grave.

Something that is comforting to know perhaps is that all they manage to recruit are people who have the same mindset as those behind the server and loosing them is really not a big deal for us nor should it be to your community.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this project topple over quite fast as well (as their former projects by the exact same group of teenagers) because of bickering and arguments internally and the reasons mentioned above. If I should believe what I hear that has already started, so I think there is no reason to worry at all or create any fuss. We have more important things to do don't we? Let them dig themselves deeper and their names be known by all.



Best Regards;

Kenneth Brander
kenneth@fsxeu.com
http://www.fsxeu.com
Patrick Hill
United States

27th Mar 2014
19:52:47
Mr. Bartlam please contact me directly about the person advertising Lufthansa Virtual in your server. I will handle that ASAP. Also if any other servers have anyone coming in and talking about Lufthansa Virtual please contact me, I will make sure to put a stop to it immediately. I am very sorry for this and I will definitely fix it.

Patrick Hill | CEO
Lufthansa Virtual
patrick@lufthansava.org
ts3.lufthansava.org
Dikembe Williams
Antigua and Barbuda

28th Mar 2014
04:15:45
Dear Mr Bathlam Sorry for What went wrong I knew no better I will abide by other communities' rules and requirements.

Dikembe Williams
Your's Truly
Johnny Mckenzie
United States

28th Mar 2014
16:36:20
I also had issues with these same guys, apparently they're trying to do this everywhere else too - weird.

This is a new one that's come in today. I've removed the name of the individual.

<11:57:51> "": Guys please click this link as many times you can - http://www.fsopen.co.uk/info/sessions/?HostID=6359
Kenneth Brander
Norway

28th Mar 2014
19:47:21
That explains allot. It was really no good reasons for them to climb up the list as fast as they have but now I totally understand how they did it. They have mainly been around our server to recruit people.

I am not to sure that fsopen should be to happy with this way to promote the network in my opinion. Having people like this representing the network is just a shame which gives fsopen a rather bad reputation for being a network full of needy kids.

It's also a bit demotivating to see that some get away with rather shady methods like it, for us that works hard to do it the right and proper way.
David Bartlam
United Kingdom

28th Mar 2014
22:15:12
To be honest, I don't like that system nor agree with it. It's too easy to manipulate and is half the reason communities like ours get the spammers.
I've been considering moving over to VATSIM or equivalent for a while now, it's becoming more likely as a solution to the problem.

A shame really as I've used FSOpen for over three years now.

The FSOpen sessions listings are too easily manipulated and too many people try to abuse the FSOpen link system. Your community, Mr Brander, I have not seen move from top spot for over a year, yet everyone else moves below it. For experimental purposes, I've had 43 people at one time (it was a discussion on my Teamspeak one evening) to click out Host ID link. We jumped from 5th to second, yet no overtaking Europe. That started ringing alarm bells for me, since that moment, I've not even bothered to share our ID link; we also minimised FSOpen advertising of the host ID link on our main website to just one location and completely removed it from our Airline website.

The "more clicks you get, the higher you go" system isn't a good one at all. I personally would suggest a new system. I'd put a map which shows you where all the traffic and ATC are throughout all the communities, which then has a list on the side stating how many pilots and controllers are online on each server, with the highest amount of traffic being at the top. Advertising should be down to the communities the self, through their own avenues.

Alternatively, I'd go down the VATSIM route and have just one big server for everyone to fly on.

Just my opinion
Muhammed Sheriff
India

28th Mar 2014
22:27:39
Hey Guys ,

We have taken care of Dikembe. He won't repeat his shameful actions again. We need to make this clear here. We do not claim any ownership on our pilots , they are free to join or leave. We do not believe that by the actions of merely one pilot who also has his own community can be the reason for being charged with "stealing" members from other communities by Lufthansa Virtual as a whole.

You are quite desperate to give us a bad name in this community. The theory stating that all our pilots are recruited from your server which is not at all possible shows your immature mindset and inability to comprehend. Your community doesn't represent the whole FSOpen community , hence you do not contain the right to judge us and name us which as I said shows your immaturity and ignorant behavior. FSXW is the clear corroboration which opposes your illiterate judgement.

We cannot help if your members are attracted to our community and join us and you foolishly banning them only adds to our success. That is your problem, so deal with it. Pointing fingers at us with no proof at all shows that your mind is filled with envy and jealousy. You are digging your own grave while attempting to diminish other successful communities with envy. If you do have more important things to do and call us time-drainers, then why do you have to put your leg in everyone's matters like 6 year old's who cant understand ? So I suggest you grow up and not bother us anymore ! We can handle our own problems.

If you have any problems with us , you can send us an e-mail stating what's wrong with photographic evidence so we can solve it in the most productive way rather than come to public forums and point fingers like kids at each other for completely

As David comes from the same background as me , he does understand that it was not our mistake as a whole and what I'm talking about and I believe he will support us as a whole as he has done before.

I suggest you do not bother us again with your fancy words and jealousy since we are not bothering you.

We might not be the best or the top FSX community but hey ! We're on our way !

'I'm not representing by Lufthansa VA in anyway , These words are not from Lufthansa VA and are from me individually as a person , Lufthansa VA will not be held responsible for it in any way.'


Good Luck !


Muttalib Sheriff
muhammedmuttalib@gmail.com





Muhammed Sheriff
India

28th Mar 2014
23:15:35
Mr Johnny ,

That was in our own TS server and it is really not mature of you to copy/paste of what we put on our own server and posting
on public forums. This is very cheap behavior from you and show how jealous you are of us. We own our TS Server and have the right to post anything on it without any objection. If you do not like it then please leave us.

Best Regards,
Muttalib sheriff
Muhammed Sheriff
India

28th Mar 2014
23:20:12
Mr. Johnny ,

We do have our server logs which we cannot change to prove you wrong and our pilots are witness as well . I do not understand why you and 'others' are so jealous of our success.

Please note that we are not puppets. We will work against your strengths !

Good Luck with trying to destroy us, we will hit back hard everytime !

Muttalib Sheriff
Dikembe Williams
Antigua and Barbuda

28th Mar 2014
23:44:10
Notice I'm Stocked in this mess but i will have to have a ts3 chat with Mr. Barthlam because i see the whole of fsopen in this one throughout the pictures i see it's not telling lie but Mr. Barthlam must be mad throught all the spammer's and me including me.

Contact me at kembewembe12@hotmail.com


Kenneth Brander
Norway

29th Mar 2014
04:31:41
Hey David,

I agree very much with you on the point of the list not functioning as good as it can be. At this point this ranking system seems quite futile and it clearly do not always work in -our- favour, you are right.

This list is both a blessing and a curse.

I must however disagree with one thing, we have actually dropped on the list, maybe not for long, but it has happened. We tried removing our unique link to fsopen for a while and sure enough we started dropping. So you are not right about that sir. We have actually dropped from time to time. At the time being we have more traffic coming into the website from the internet in general then traffic from the fsopen list or fsopen. We obviously send more unique traffic into the fsopen system then most of you others are able to do is all that I can make of it.

That being said, I do believe the list is being adjusted by Dave at he's discretion in some cases. But I have never thought for one second that we are being treated specially in any way, at least not our server. We simply do our best to do as fsopen require of us, to promote them properly.

Making sure fsopen is being promoted because it is a good initiative, it gain us all. The network has grown considerably since it was first launched. I believe its very much our effort as well that helps widen the footprint of fsopen on the internet. We will continue our support to the fsopen network for now but yes we have also thought about VATSIM or the other networks.

I believe it is time for some changes, to keep the serious servers going here, those who work hard and deserve to be at the top ten/twenty, we need this system to be improved. We have asked for this before, change that is. We suggest, let the ranking be decided by the combination of three things.

1. How much traffic we send to the fsopen website.

2. How much users that passes through the server.

3. Only "pro licensed" servers can be on the top 20 list.

That is something that sounds sensible to me. The system obviously do not work when its simply enough to spam the unique URL on facebook, random teamspeak servers and get allot of people to click on it that are not FSX users and have no intention to become FSX users nor use the fsopen network.

Facebook is a good medium for this, you can get help from your friends to raise the click-rate. I have seen this before and the system being exploited by those who has tons of "friends" on facebook. It is several servers that has no reason to climb the list. I have also noted that people that use this strategy to gain position usually also falls quite quick because they are simply not able to keep it up. One can't force it and eventually people will tire out unless you are able to work it out like we have. This is something that differs our server from the bunch, we have been able to keep it up without pestering our users urging them to click the link by using other strategies instead. Creating a attractive product. One cannot hold it against us that we are doing this the right way.

All this being said, being on top of the list is not that much glory as it sounds like. We attract so many people that are far from material for our server at least with our rules and politics. Once again, sometime being on the list is a blessing, it brings in the users. But sometimes it is also a curse because it from time to time brings in the wrong kind of users.

The number horny teenagers, I personally hate`em. This is the only reason why I want to see if VATSIM has something better to offer. But I doubt it as VATSIM users come to us signing up as ATCs. However maybe its less of them there, those we really don't want around.

The cocky, egoistical, narrow-minded, short-tempered, immature, ignorant but at the same time a over-confident know-it-all and all over hopeless kids, teenagers and nasty internet-trolls. *puh* I could name quite allot of them roaming this network. Being that we have allot of users we are doomed to get some of them streaming through as well.

We have a blacklist if some needs to learn whom to avoid and why. Our blacklist consist of people who has broken the rules set by our management built on several years of experience. Thousands of hours collected with experience. Since this network and before this network was ever thought of it's been added less then 30 people to it.

This should tell one more about those added to it then us as a community with our rules and politics. Keep in mind that thousands has been part of our community. We are considering to make the list public to give other communities heads up about these added to it. Feel free to contact me for the list if you are running a community on this network, I will gladly share.

Isn't it a bit strange that probably half of that list is LufthansaVA.org crew, users and friends of the managers? Some of them was added already up to two years ago, long before it was even thought of.

Hope that`s not to fancy wording for you to follow the points Mr. Muttalib. I will not even try answer on your posts and opinions or the points you are failing to make because they are so immensely far from the reality I live in. I simply see no point in doing it, it would be utterly futile. As a brilliant teacher one time learned me, if someone wants to believe the earth is flat, then let them, its no point in arguing.

But I can add,

I am quite glad, believe it or not, that you guys have found yourself a server you want to work for so we don't have to deal with you over at ours, but please stay there and stay out of ours and stop leeching on other communities, that's all I ask and it seems it is several who share this opinion. A problem created by your users, staff and managers, not us.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

? George Carlin



Best Regards;

Kenneth Brander
kenneth@fsxeu.com
http://www.fsxeu.com
Curley Campbell
United States
29th Mar 2014
14:08:32
Gentlemen.... my personal opinion... somewhere along the line some of you have lost sight of the most important concept of FSOpen. Dave's efforts and hard work over the years has been the single most important contribution to the FSX community.... for those that host sessions. I might add, in my case, I do not worry about ATC, flight strips, etc. I believe if you will step back a notch and reflect back on how it use to be with simply "GameSpy".... you would better appericate how truly blessed we are for Dave's efforts. To me... this is the single most important TOOL for use in a MP session. Without it... I would be back to having to "babysit" my session 15hrs a day... like I used to.

I have a small group of flyers.. and that is for a reason. Weather I am on the top or bottom of the list is totally irrelevant. Hosting a quality session is accomplished by proper session management... in other words.. if you run a good session .. people will come. I can tell you personally, that most of my regular pilots learn about my particular session by "word of mouth". Others simply see it on Dave's list and give it a try... and find it is not their "cup of tea."

In my case... "egos" are totally checked at the door. Spammers, the kids that think it's funny to interfere with other pilots, and the simply totally idiot pilots... soon loose their opportunity to fly in our session. It boils down to setting your session rules and enforcing them as politely as you can... when needed. The main goal for my session is to provide a quality session for everyone... it is NOT for everyone as my website states.

Our "mission statement" is quite clear. "This session is somewhat unique in FSX. If you are interested in Carrier operations, you may find this a fun place to test your skills or learn new ones. This is a group of pilots, like yourself, who share an interest in naval carrier operations. Here you will find other pilots with various skill levels, willing to share knowledge. We hope you will share the decks with a great bunch of pilots, from around the world, that fly together in a "team" spirit." We have rules... WE enforce them... and it works!

There are a lot of folks in FSX that think I'm a jerk. That is normally because they do not understand or like our rules. So be it. There are also hundreds over the past 6 years that have learned about FSX MP and session hosting... and moved on to other areas within the community.

The bottom line... loose the egos.. this should NOT be a popularity contest.... and truly appreciate the tool Dave has provided us... and enjoy your aviation experience.



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